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InstagramHarlan Schillinger:
One of the tough things that I’ve had to deal with in advertising is that I see so many lawyers that are advertising that are really not qualified to take on the business that they’re asking for. I see that because I know the business. I understand what they’re investing in the case. I understand their lack of empathy. To them, it’s a business. Well, the business of law is a business and you do have to run your firm like a business, but you’re dealing with other people’s lives and preying on them is just simply not good.
David Craig – Host:
I’m attorney David Craig, managing partner, and one of the founders of the law firm of Craig, Kelley, and Faultless. I’ve represented people who have been seriously injured, who have had a family member killed in a semi or other big truck wreck for over 30 years. Following the wreck, their lives are chaos. Often, they don’t even know enough about the process to ask the right questions. It is my goal to empower you by providing you with the information you need to protect yourself and your family. In each and every episode, I will interview top experts and professionals that are involved in truck wreck cases. This is After the Crash.
David Craig – Host:
Today on After the Crash, we have Harlan Schillinger as our guest. If you look on the internet or listen to other people introduce him, I’ve heard him introduced a million different ways. He’s been introduced as the Black Swan of legal marketing, the grandfather of legal advertising, a titan in legal marketing, the father of legal advertising and marketing, a legal marketing genius, a world class marketing consultant for lawyers, the most experienced and knowledgeable law firm marketing expert in the industry.
David Craig – Host:
I know him as a friend, someone who is a straight shooter, someone who cares about the quality of legal representation in legal marketing and who’s dedicated the last 40 plus years to helping lawyers market their law firms in a respectful, in a high profile, and an honest and caring way. Harlan, welcome to After the Crash.
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, thank you, David. That was quite a sendoff. I haven’t heard all of those, but I didn’t even know if I should accept them. That’s a pretty high bar. What I do know is that I’ve been in this business 40 some odd years, and we’ve seen a lot.
David Craig – Host:
And that’s why I was so happy that you agreed to come on this podcast. As you know, this podcast deals with serious wrecks, semi-truck wrecks, catastrophic wrecks, people that have died or are severely injured as a result of a wreck and it’s so important in my opinion that the families of the victims get the right lawyer. They pick the right lawyer. You know lawyer advertising and marketing better than anybody. I think our clients and the people who are the victims, they’ve never had to pick a lawyer.
David Craig – Host:
A lot of them have never dealt with lawyers. They have no idea, and they’re bombarded with all types of marketing, and I want to talk a little bit about that today.
How to Pick the Right Lawyer?
Harlan Schillinger:
Back in 1977, when Van O’Steen presented the case, Bates and Van O’Steen against the State of Arizona, the case that went to the Supreme Court was based on opening up options for the client, really was giving the public opportunity and a gateway to the court system, or to choose a lawyer, or to find help in a different way other than just asking my neighbor, if you heard of a good lawyer, and it was really based on freedom of speech and all of the constitutional points that we adhere to and embrace.
Harlan Schillinger:
What it also did was gave the opportunity for a lot of people to say a lot of different things. Advertising could be your best friend and your worst enemy because you don’t really know sometimes what people are saying and why they’re saying it or whether it’s truthful or not. It’s interesting. When it comes to lawyering, there’s all kinds of lawyers. They say there’s good lawyers and there’s bad lawyers, but what’s a good lawyer and what’s a bad lawyer? What’s considered, David, a qualified lawyer?
Harlan Schillinger:
To drill down to your question, and your position, how do you choose a lawyer? Because that’s the most important thing when you get into an accident, unfortunately. First of all, you’re the kind of fellow that doesn’t really want somebody in your office. You’re not chasing accidents. You’re not capitalizing on the fact that somebody else is hurt. What you are, you’re like a surgeon. You’re a surgeon that when they take a case, you dissect it. You put all of your efforts into it.
Harlan Schillinger:
Not all lawyers do that, but all lawyers say they do that. Most lawyers say they do that. They say, “Well, I can do this, and I’ll do that, and I’ll do this.” Then the question is, do they really do it? It comes down to meeting everybody’s expectations, but specifically what’s happened over the years is lawyers have the opportunity really to say whatever they want, and I think that’s kind of sad.
Harlan Schillinger:
Look, retailers say that. Food restaurants say, “I’m the best. It’s the best food in Texas or the best barbecue in St. Louis,” or what have you. Does that really make them the best because they said that? So, the issue is how do you find what we think is the best lawyer for your particular situation, for your case? Because it’s so important.
David Craig – Host:
Folks that are in one of these catastrophic semi-truck wrecks, and they may have lost a loved one. They may have lost a father or a mother or a child, and if it’s a breadwinner for the family, they may not have ways to pay the bills and they have their future medical expenses. And there’s so many different problems that they’re dealing with initially. Any good lawyer, myself included, just wants these people to get to the right lawyer. I mean, my heart breaks when I see a catastrophic case go to the wrong lawyer.
David Craig – Host:
I’m happy when they go to a good lawyer, whether it’s me or someone else. You just want these people represented. I guarantee you that it’s hard because people who don’t know lawyers and don’t live next to a lawyer, don’t socialize with lawyers, they’re suddenly faced with, “How in the world do I pick a lawyer?” How do I find someone who’s knowledgeable, who’s experienced, who has the expertise, who has the resources? That’s where lawyer advertising can be confusing.
What Is a Good Lawyer?
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, the Supreme Court said it’s good to have access to the courtroom and for people to have the ability to make decisions by providing the public with knowledge. What we’re really talking about is how do you find a good lawyer and what is a good lawyer, or what are we talking about when we use the phrase good lawyer? I’ll go back to something that I’ve always fallen back to, which is the oath of office that you signed when you became a lawyer.
Harlan Schillinger:
You know that one paragraph that says, I will do this, this, this. I will fight vigorously with passion for my client. I have never really met a lawyer other than yourself, and several others that have read that since the time they signed it. I find that absolutely amazing because you took an oath to fulfill a certain function. You took an oath to get your license. You took an oath which is really a moral to defend and to help the victim.
Harlan Schillinger:
Lawyer advertising has changed the face of the earth when it comes to looking for services, because you really don’t know what you’re looking for. You don’t know what questions to ask. I would say that the thing that bothers me the most about lawyers is the lack of passion and the lack of compassion.
David Craig – Host:
I think that to some lawyers, but not all. I mean, it’s important to understand that there are really good lawyers out there. There are really caring people out there. The trick is for the client to find them. When you’re bombarded with television ads, just because someone is on television and I’m sure you would agree, just because someone is on television, doesn’t make them good or bad. I mean, that’s just one factor. It’s a way to communicate. That’s how they’ve chosen to communicate.
David Craig – Host:
I guarantee you, the defense lawyers and the trucking company’s lawyers are not picking their lawyers to defend these catastrophic cases by a television commercial. They’re not looking at a Google ad. They’re looking at who is the best qualified defense lawyer who can defend and protect our trucking company and this truck driver. They are picking the best, and these families need to do the same thing.
Finding Certified Truck Lawyers
Harlan Schillinger:
Yes, you have a monumental task to go up against a trucking company. They have a tremendous amount of energy, power, and money, and they’re going to throw everything at it if you bring suit against them. Accidents happen and we sometimes can’t control that, but what we can control is who we hire. To look deeper and deeper into who you’re hiring is really the issue that we’re talking about. How do you make that decision?
Harlan Schillinger:
David, I was really surprised to know, and I found this out a couple of years ago, there’s really only a few and when I say a few, maybe 50 or 60 certified truck lawyers in the country. What that means, and when I looked into it, it means that you’re qualified. Qualified because you meet certain standards. You have a certain education. You’ve tried a certain amount of cases.
Harlan Schillinger:
You invest in the case. That’s something I’d like to touch on. What does it mean when a lawyer says I’m going to invest in the case, or you have to make a decision based on what you think the lawyer is going to invest in the case. That’s really, really important. That’s participating in the case. I mean, you won’t find a lawyer in this country that will say, “Well, I don’t really want a trucking case, or I don’t really want a big case.” Everybody wants a big case. Everybody is advertising for what they call the big case, even the small case.
Harlan Schillinger:
Really what it comes down to is you are the victim. You have a big problem, and the problem is affecting you and everyone in your family, everybody at your job, and people that you surround yourselves with, so making that decision is really paramount.
David Craig – Host:
I couldn’t agree more. As you know, you’ve dealt with law firms throughout this whole country, you’ve seen all types of law firms and different size law firms, small and big. We’re not all created equally. We’re just not. Not every law firm has the money. I mean, I’ve had as much as a quarter of a million dollars of our own money in a truck wreck case. There are some law firms that may be good lawyers, but they don’t have a quarter of a million dollars to invest in all of the experts and all of the consultants that are necessary to get a family a fair value.
David Craig – Host:
If somebody mistakenly picks that firm who doesn’t have the resources, the trucking company is going to take advantage of that.
Harlan Schillinger:
Yes, you really do have to have resources to fight the big companies and industry. If you don’t, you’re really behind. It’s not much different than an NFL team or any kind of a competitive situation. You have to draft the right player. You have to invest in your business. You have to invest in your team. Most of all, you have to invest in the client and there is no way of getting around that. When somebody gets into a truck wreck or any kind of a wreck, you have to fight it. You’re going to battle.
Harlan Schillinger:
In battle, you amass your arms. You amass your army. You do smart technology. You do what it takes to beat the enemy. Unfortunately, when you are involved with a truck wreck, the enemy becomes the trucking company. Excuse me. Let me rephrase that. It becomes the insurance company for the trucking company. The trucking company are people as well. They don’t want to see this happen, but they’re fully insured. Then, the insurance company becomes, and I hate to say the enemy, but the reason I’m saying the enemy is they become the enemy. They turn on you. They will do everything possible to pay you as little as possible.
Harlan Schillinger:
So, how do you go up against that? It’s a very definite David and Goliath approach, but David put a lot of energy into that stone that he picked and pulling that back and twirling it around his head, he shot it and it hit the target. It hit the target right here. Thought went into it. Energy went into it. Compassion went into it. I will tell you that I’ve been involved with thousands of lawyers in this country.
Harlan Schillinger:
When I say thousands, I’ve probably worked with almost 500 and I can tell you that very few law firms can handle a trucking case, can handle a catastrophic case because they don’t have the education. They don’t have the resources and it’s not necessarily their business. It’s only part of their business. One of the things that I was very attracted to you with is that you are all in. This is your business. Going after truck wrecks, construction zone accidents, these are very monumental cases that really take a lot of work, work and money to fight, and unless you are all in, the client gets what we call the short end of the stick.
David Craig – Host:
I had a client sit down with me not long ago and said that he felt very blessed that he picked our law firm, but he didn’t know us. He said, “I didn’t know how.” He said, “I started looking and Googling and calling different firms.” He just googled and he said, “Some of the law firms I picked weren’t even in the state that I lived in. I didn’t know it.” Because in Google, you don’t always know. I mean, he was like dumbfounded and he said luckily, he made enough phone calls and did his due diligence, and eventually ended up in our office where we were able to help him.
David Craig – Host:
I think that that’s something that I’m seeing more of and maybe you see it, but I see more marketing. There are just even marketing companies now that aren’t even law firms. They’re not lawyers, but they’re just marketing companies that are using Google and advertising. So, when you search for the best truck wreck lawyer, sometimes these marketing companies come up and people call them not even realizing that they’re not talking to a law firm initially. Then these marketing companies, I guess, sell these leads to whatever lawyers are willing to pay for the leads. Have you seen that?
Marketing Companies vs. Real Law Firms
Harlan Schillinger:
Yes, absolutely. David, here’s the deal. Unfortunately, a trucking accident or a major car accident, any kind of an accident happens, and you have a swarm of people that want that case. They want that case because they’re in business to get those kinds of cases. You have lead generation firms going after that particular case. You have local lawyers going after that particular case. You have, in some cases, truck drivers, tow truck people working for lawyers to funnel them that case.
Harlan Schillinger:
It’s amazing what happens in a wreck and how many people are truly, truly involved. One of the things the internet has done it that it’s leveled the playing field. It’s taken barriers away. It’s taken territory and made it all one big territory. So, you have lawyers from Texas, or you have lawyers from California or the next state over all wanting a piece of whatever is going on that they’re targeting that case, that case in Indianapolis, that case in Indiana. So, with the internet, you can go anywhere. You can be anything. That’s the bad part about the internet as far as I’m concerned or the tough part.
Harlan Schillinger:
Let me tell you the good part of the internet on this side is that it gives you a true opportunity to do some serious research. Most clients are so emotional when they have an accident or somebody in their family has an accident that they don’t spend the time and energy to really, really investigate who the best lawyer for them is.
Harlan Schillinger:
Now, is really having a lawyer that’s in 17 states over the best for a victim and their family in Indiana? I don’t think so. They may be the best lawyer in the planet in Texas. Laws are different. They just want the case. Everybody wants this case. It’s so highly valued that people will do almost anything to get it, and that’s your competition, David. You’re sitting in Indianapolis and in St. Louis and you’re one of the top 50 truck lawyers in America.
Harlan Schillinger:
50 truck lawyers in America. There are thousands of lawyers in America. You’ve earned the distinction because you put the time and the effort into your cases. When you get to that level that you are at, you earned it. That’s the only way to earn that type of a position because you’ve invested in your practice. You’ve invested in yourself and you’re a seasoned, what you call seasoned lawyer that has earned that reputation.
Harlan Schillinger:
When an accident happens, the swarm of bees come all over that, and you have no idea who you’re dealing with, and I find that it extremely frustrating. I can’t imagine how frustrating that is for the victim and the family. I mean, they’re going through a tragedy right now. They’re sitting in a hospital, and somebody knocks on the door and says, “Hey, I can save you.” I mean, really?
Law Firms and Unethical Practices
David Craig – Host:
You’re absolutely right. I mean, because these cases can be large, because the consequences are so devastating, there are some lawyers willing to even risk their license and do things that are unethical. I mean, lawyers have rules we have to follow, and you want to make sure when you pick a lawyer, you pick somebody who follows the rules because if they’re willing to break the rules to get you as a client, then you don’t know that they’re not going to break some rules down the road when it comes to your money. Are they going to hold your money? Are they going to distribute your money? Are they going to lie to you?
David Craig – Host:
If they’re willing to lie and cheat to get you as a client. They certainly are going to be willing to lie and cheat while you are their client, and that’s sad, but it’s true in these catastrophic cases.
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, it’s true in even smaller cases. The greed that’s behind lawyers, sometimes are founded, but keep in mind the that’s only a small percentage of lawyers that are out there. Primarily, we deal with a bar that is filled with really good people, good lawyers. When you say good lawyers, people that know the difference between right and wrong will work very, very hard for you or live up to that agreement that everyone signs. That first contract that they sign.
Harlan Schillinger:
It’s kind of interesting. Our conversations in the past have been frustrating to both of us because we scratch our heads when we see lawyers standing on top of trucks. We see lawyers standing in an intersection saying, “Go ahead, hit me. I’m represented by myself. I’m the smartest guy on the planet.” So, how do you do homework? How do you dig deep into finding out who I should be working with? I think that’s really where we’re headed in this conversation.
David Craig – Host:
Absolutely. I agree. So, how do you?
How to Find Out Which Law Firm You Should be Working With
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, I think that that’s when the internet becomes your friend. The internet is a tremendous tool. We love and hate it. We hate it when our kids are on it, when we’re trying to call them for dinner time, but when we have to do research and we have to find anything out about somebody, it’s one of our best friends, but you have to spend the time and the energy. You have to look at reviews, which are very, very important. I think the public can pretty much tell at this point, the majority of the public, what is an honest review and what is not an honest review.
Harlan Schillinger:
Look through somebody’s website. Look at their credentials. Look at their past history. That’s a great start. Look at the resources that they have. When you’re dealing with a truck accident the first couple of hours are the very, very most important of securing the truck. Well, that takes a lot of energy to secure a truck that was in an accident to get to the scene, to find the black box, to try to preserve the energy, preserve the…
David Craig – Host:
Evidence.
Harlan Schillinger:
I’m still recovering from Christmas. To preserve the energy. Excuse me, to preserve the evidence is vital. It’s amazing how many lawyers advertise, “I want your truck case,” but they don’t do that. They don’t react quick enough. Number one, it takes energy, and it takes money. More importantly, it takes passion, and it takes a drive to be able to get off your couch and secure all of that. I mean, that all has to be done immediately.
David Craig – Host:
Right. There are times when I get cases that are referred to me by other lawyers that take them thinking they might get a settlement or a quick settlement, and then they don’t. Then they hire me a year or two years later, and the evidence has not been preserved, and that puts the client in a bad position. So, by going to a lawyer that knows what they’re doing, who has handled these cases, and I would even argue that has gone to trial on one of these cases.
David Craig – Host:
I mean I don’t know that I could be as effective as an advocate for my clients if I had never tried a truck case or semi case, and by trying a case, you learn a lot more and then regularly going to trial. I mean, our firm tries cases on a regular basis, as you know. I think that when you’re picking a lawyer, you do your research and you find somebody who’s handled similar cases to the one that you have, who has the expertise, the knowledge, the resources, but also somebody who actually tries cases because certainly there’s trucking companies and the insurance companies know who does and who doesn’t.
Preparing the Case Properly
Harlan Schillinger:
One of the things that are really, really important is preparing a case. The majority of people really don’t want to go to court. They don’t really want to go through the process. They don’t want to go live through the accident again, especially if there’s a death. People just are not comfortable going to trial. On the other hand, if you don’t prepare yourself to go to trial, you’re not preparing the case properly.
Harlan Schillinger:
The first trial that you’re going to participate in with the client is with the insurance company. It’s a trial. It’s a trial on how much evidence you have, how you’ve built your case against the insurance company. So, you have to be prepared right from the beginning. You have to prepare yourself. One of the things that I’m impressed with you is that you prepare every case for trial.
Harlan Schillinger:
Does that mean that you spend a gob of money unnecessarily? Heck no. What you are doing is you are preparing for trial. You’re gathering your evidence. You’re lining yourself up. You’re proving your case and you’re pushing the insurance company to do the right thing based on evidence and based on the facts of the case. Not what your client would think, or we think the client deserves, but you have to earn that. When we talk about earning it, we’re talking about building the case.
Harlan Schillinger:
There’s no such thing as a million-dollar case. I’ve heard that many, many times. You have to build the case, but building the case is investing in the case and dissecting the case. It’s almost like what we see on television. Although I can’t compare what you do to a television series, but it’s the preparation. It’s the digging. It’s the investigations.
Doing Due Diligence Before Picking a Lawyer
David Craig – Host:
If it’s your case, I mean, clearly you want to do that. I mean, I can’t imagine people going and buying a house without ever seeing it, without going to it, without having an inspection done on the house to make sure that it’s as good as it looks, but yet, sometimes people will pick a lawyer just that easy. I mean, just that quickly. They don’t do their due diligence. I would tell you that if the rest of your life is going to be affected by the decision on which lawyer you pick, please do your due diligence. Treat it like you’re going to buy a house. Do your inspections, do all that.
David Craig – Host:
Then I would actually tell you to narrow it down to two or three people and then go interview them, talk to them. It’s your life. The rest of your life is in jeopardy, is in question, and so take the time. The lawyers, if they don’t want to talk to you, if they’re not welcoming, if they’re not willing to answer your questions in the beginning, then you have the wrong lawyer to begin with.
Harlan Schillinger:
I think it begins with empathy. You can tell whether somebody is empathetic or not, and I understand the difference between being empathetic and being qualified to try the case, but you can be both. Certainly, you have to invest in your client and investing in your client is understanding your client, nurturing your client. When I say that, it’s being compassionate. I mean, they’re going through the worst times of their lives. This doesn’t have to be a cold business. This doesn’t have to be all about the facts.
Harlan Schillinger:
You have a tremendous responsibility, David, as a lawyer, when you take on a big case or any kind of a case. You’re responsible for the outcome of the victim. That’s mentally and physically, and monetarily.
David Craig – Host:
I agree. Again, it hurts. It hurts me. Again, when I see somebody pick the wrong lawyer, and I know that lawyer is just going to settle the case for the first offer, I know that the trucking company or the insurance company knows that that lawyer is not going to take that case to trial. It hurts because you know that these folks are not going to be taken care of, and when they go to a good lawyer, whether it’s a competitor of mine or whatever, I know that they’re going to be taken care of, and that’s a good feeling.
David Craig – Host:
There are 50 or so board certified trial lawyers out there that do truck wrecks. Any one of those lawyers can handle the case. So, the next question is when you pick one of them, or you screen them. They’re pre-vetted. And you pick one of them, then the question is you interview a couple of them, and you find out which one do you hit it off with. That’s the one you should be with because you’re going to spend years with this law firm and your family is going to spend years with this law firm. So, it should be people that you can relate to and who you’re comfortable with. We all have different styles and there’s not a right or wrong style, but it’s just whichever style is comfortable to you.
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, I think asking questions, looking at lawyer’s credentials, looking at that past, look at their involvement in the community, looking at involvement in their cases, and reviews are very important. Make sure that their honest reviews, and that’s doing your due diligence. Most people don’t understand what certified or uncertified means. You can buy a badge that says, “I’m the best lawyer in the country.” You can buy that badge for $300. Does that mean that you’re the best lawyer in Indianapolis? I don’t think so. I think you have to earn your credentials.
David Craig – Host:
I couldn’t agree with you more. Well, some of the things I’d like to talk about that people should avoid. There are what’s called runners in the industry, and maybe you can talk a little bit about what some law firms use runners to try to get you and to sign up a client. I would recommend against that, because first of all, it could violate the rules of ethics, but it’s also not a good way to pick somebody. What is a runner?
What Is a Runner?
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, a runner is somebody that runs after a case basically. We came up with that phrase, came up with a runner. I think the joke was running behind an ambulance chasing after the case, but a runner can be anybody that hands you a card that’s really working for the lawyer to get the case. It’s in between individuals. A tow truck driver could be a runner. I mean, I’ve sat in a parking lot in Las Vegas once with a friend of mine and we sat in front of a chiropractic operation a chiropractic practice.
Harlan Schillinger:
A runner comes up to a client as he’s walking out after treatment and says, “Why don’t you switch lawyers and I’ll pay you whatever it was to make that move?” That’s what a runner is. A runner is just that. They’re running the case. They’re walking in hospitals. They’re preying on people. The movies made a big deal about it when standing in the funeral line and grieving with the deceased’s wife, but a runner basically preys on people. Let’s talk about solicitation. Solicitation by a lawyer is illegal. Most people don’t know that a lawyer cannot solicit for a case.
David Craig – Host:
Yes, and we’re talking about direct solicitation?
Harlan Schillinger:
Yes, direct solicitation, not advertising but direct solicitation.
David Craig – Host:
Yeah.
Harlan Schillinger:
Yeah.
David Craig – Host:
Unless you have a relationship with them or a family or something like that, or a client it’s prohibited, but yet again on these large cases, I had a case where it was a catastrophic brain injury out in Missouri over by Kansas City. The lady was involved in a semi-wreck, and she had a major brain injury. She was in a coma, and she was lifelined to a hospital. The husband was up and sat there in intensive care with her outside her room day and night while she was in this coma. While he was there, he went down to get a cup of coffee. Somebody approached him and gave him a card. They first approached him and said, “I was on the helicopter that lifelined your wife to the hospital. How is she doing?”
David Craig – Host:
He said, “Oh, thank you for helping take care of her. She’s still in a coma.” Then he went on and said, “Well, I prayed with her. I held her hand and I hope she’s okay. I was glad to be there for her.” Then, he goes, “By the way, if you need a lawyer, this is a good friend of mine. Call him,” and gave this guy a card. Fortunately, his family knew of me and knew of my reputation. They hired me and it turned out that, because I interviewed the people in the helicopter, and this guy that said he was there was not. He lied. It was all a lie to get this lawyer a case, and that’s what you’ve got to watch for. Like you said, the people who are directly soliciting business through themselves or through another person, they’re preying on these people.
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, they’re soliciting business for their own personal gain. Look, we all go to work, and we try to earn money. There are ways of earning money at somebody else’s expense and preying on them in an illegal situation. We have a term for that. It’s not kosher.
David Craig – Host:
Absolutely, and then I think that along the lines of direct solicitation, another thing we see now is, and you alluded to it, runners that actually show up at the hospital. I haven’t had a large case that I’ve been hired on that there have not been inappropriate attempts to get these folks as clients in probably the last, maybe 10 years. Every large case I’ve worked on, there has been some attempt by somebody to inappropriately get them as a client, and sometimes they take police reports into the hospital room and they say, “Oh, by the way, I thought you would probably want a copy of your police report. Here you go. As a courtesy, oh, by the way, there’s a card stapled to it. If you need a lawyer, call that lawyer.”
Harlan Schillinger:
It’s interesting Hollywood has had a field day with lawyers and these kinds of approaches. I use that because the truth of the matter is that it happens. It really does happen. My advice is never feed into a runner because you have no idea what’s on the other end, and if a lawyer is going to hire a runner to hire you, they are not ethical.
David Craig – Host:
Unfortunately, a lot of people just don’t know that, and that’s why I wanted to do this podcast to educate people because if they’ve never had any dealings with lawyers, they may not know that that’s not proper. They may not know that that’s not ethical. They may not know that that’s prohibited in every state.
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, choosing the right lawyer for you and your case is a task. It’s stressful. It takes a lot of work, but it is absolutely worth it, David. Finding a lawyer with the right resources is everything. They have to have compassion. You have to have the right talent to be able to go against Goliath, and that’s really what it comes down to. We’re coming back to that David and Goliath approach but getting into solicitation and getting into how lawyers find cases, it’s amazing.
Harlan Schillinger:
The greed involved in this process really takes precedence with some people, and that is a complete violation of the ethics that you all signed when you became a lawyer. That’s not compassionate. That’s greed.
David Craig – Host:
The good news is, like you said earlier, it’s a very small percentage of attorneys. The majority of attorneys are going to follow the rules of ethics. They’re going to abide by what’s right and what’s wrong and they’re going to do the right thing. It’s just that small percentage, but unfortunately the bigger the case, the more likely you are to deal with that small percentage.
Harlan Schillinger:
Because of the value of the case, they’re chasing after the value of monetary opportunity and that’s wrong. In business and in life, most people are good, David. Most people do the right thing. Most people, the majority of people, the abundance and beyond the majority of people are good people. We always have that fringe, that 10%, 2% that makes a lot of people look bad.
Harlan Schillinger:
In lawyering, that’s really where it’s at. Lawyers are always at butt of jokes because the small percentage of lawyers that are really not good people broadcast a message to the public. So, you got to weed through that. In life, you bump into people that just are not qualified to do what they’re doing. Most of the time, we find that out a little too late though.
David Craig – Host:
Yeah. I know you’re actively involved in marketing. I know that one of the things that you preach is that people should be genuine. People should be honest. People should represent who they are and let people know that, so that when they’re looking and trying to choose a lawyer, they get the real deal rather than some fake facade.
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, there’s a lot of good actors out there, but the backbone to my thinking and my advertising is to talk to the public the way you would a jury, and David, the reason I do that is number one, we have the greatest jury system in the world. We truly have a tremendous judicial system, but when you are going into court, you have to be affable. You have to be honest. You can’t fool a jury. You can’t make up things. You have to be formidable. You have to be direct. You have to be likable. You can’t fool a jury.
Harlan Schillinger:
Maybe we have every once in a while, but if you approach every case as if you are going to talk to the jury, you simply can’t fool a jury. You can’t plant evidence. There’s no, what we call, “smoking gun.” You have to deal on the facts on the truth. You have to be credible, and you have to be likable for the right reasons.
David Craig – Host:
Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head too is that consistency. I mean maybe you can fool somebody once but you’re not going to consistently be successful throughout your legal career if you’re not being genuine, honest, working hard and doing the right things.
Harlan Schillinger:
Over the years, I’ve had many, many conversations with people about how we began legal advertising. Was it right for the public? Was it not right for the public? Did we let the animals out of the cage is how it’s described sometimes. But the truth of the matter is that it gave access to the courtroom for the little guy. My associate, Norton Frickey was interviewed by Tom Jarriel of 20/20 40 years ago. He looked at the camera and said that what advertising does gives access to the little guy to the courtroom, and that’s the most important thing, but choosing who you go to court with is everything.
Harlan Schillinger:
One of the tough things that I’ve had to deal with in advertising is that I see so many lawyers that are advertising that are really not qualified to take on the business that they’re asking for, and I see that, because I know the business. I understand what they’re investing in the case. I understand their lack of empathy. To them, it’s a business. Well, the business of law is a business and you do have to run your firm like a business, but you’re dealing with other people’s lives and preying on them is just simply not good. Lawyers, doctors, people at the supermarket, you’ve got good and bad in everything, but being qualified separates you from everybody else. The way you’re qualified is you earn that qualification.
David Craig – Host:
I believe that advertising is the great equalizer. People deserve to have counsel. They deserve to have the best qualified lawyer they can have, and I think that as people become more educated on how do I go about doing that and by listening to people like yourself and learning, and I think people are smart enough. People are intelligent. They can sort through it, and they can tell, but it’s going to take more than just watching a 60 second spot or a 30 second spot. They’re going to have to actually do their research.
Harlan Schillinger:
Well, your advertising, and you’re an advertiser. Everybody is an advertiser. It’s a depends on how they want to deliver that message. You’re a teacher. What I see you do is educate people. It’s interesting because I looked at every one of your podcasts. You have an entire series of podcasts and opposed to interviewing unknowns or victims or what have you, you’re interviewing something I’ve never seen before. You’re interviewing the experts that you get involved with in a case, and you’re hearing what they have to say, not what you have to say, David, but what the experts have to say.
Harlan Schillinger:
These people, they have a lot to say. They are part of your team. So, when you go after a case, when you take on a problem, somebody else’s problem, you put a team together and you go after that problem as a team. It just felt fascinating that you decided to do these podcasts and really talk about what other lawyers simply don’t talk about. Let me talk about something other than myself. Let me talk about my team. Let me talk about you, the victim.
Harlan Schillinger:
Most lawyers, it’s kind of interesting, are I do this, and I’ll do that, and I’ll do this, and I’ll do that. The way to win a game is to have a team, and you want to put the best people that you can on that team.
David Craig – Host:
I agree wholeheartedly. My goal with this podcast, as all my other podcasts, is for people to have a place to go look and learn, and educate themselves, and be part of the team. I want my clients to be part of that team. I don’t want to tell people what to do. That’s not my job. I don’t want a doctor who just tells me what to do. I want a doctor who convinces me, who educates me, who explain things to me, not somebody who just tells me, and that’s how I treat our clients. I think that everybody should look for people who give guidance, for education, and that’s why hopefully today that people can listen to your podcast and hear things about how to pick a lawyer. What’s important and how to go about doing it.
Harlan Schillinger:
You know, David, you asked me to be on this podcast or maybe I said, I would love to be on your podcast because I’m very versed and apparently, I have a lot of experience in advertising. I see lawyers all over the country, all over the world advertising. What really makes me sick is the false impression that a lot of lawyers that are advertising want to give to the public that they’re the biggest, they’re the strongest, and that they’re the best. They’re just simply not, and the reason I say they’re not, and this is my opinion, is because they don’t have the resources behind them.
Harlan Schillinger:
Talk is cheap. I can say, “Well, I can do this and I’m going to get you this, and I’m going to get you all this money”, but unless you have the right team behind you, unless you invest in the case, unless you really involve yourself, and immerse yourself in the representation of somebody, you’re not going to get those results. What you’re going to do is you’re going to satisfy your pocket and that’s called coming up short with the client.
Harlan Schillinger:
We’ve heard of lawyers selling the client short or settling on the case, or they say, “I’m going to settle on the case so that you can move on in your life”, but how you settle that case and how you conduct yourself within the resolve is how you’re really going to live your life. It has to do with treatment. It has to do with your health, your wellbeing, and your financial wellbeing.
Harlan Schillinger:
The only way to get there is to participate and invest. I don’t think anybody has won a Super Bowl without drafting the right team, doing all the work and earning their place. Earning their place because they worked harder, and they outworked the next guy.
David Craig – Host:
This is David Craig, and you’ve been listening to After the Crash. If you’d like more information about me or my law firm, please go to our website, ckflaw.com, or if you’d like to talk to me, you can call 1-800-ASK-DAVID. If you would like a guide on what to do after a truck wreck, then pick up my book, Semitruck Wreck: A Guide for Victims and Their Families. This is available on Amazon, or you can download it for free on our website, ckflaw.com.
